Discussion:
Fight to save rooftop solar in California heads to state Supreme Court
(too old to reply)
Leroy N. Soetoro
2024-04-20 22:05:35 UTC
Permalink
https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2024/04/fight-save-rooftop-solar-
california-heads-state-supreme-court

SACRAMENTO, Calif. – The fight to save California’s rooftop solar program
now heads to the state Supreme Court, after it issued a rare decision to
hear the appeal of a case that will determine the future of renewable
energy in the state.

The court agreed on Wednesday to hear a challenge to a disastrous decision
by the California public utilities commission, or CPUC, to decimate the
state’s once-thriving rooftop solar program. The appeal was filed by the
Center for Biological Diversity, or CBD, Environmental Working Group and
the Protect Our Communities Foundation.

The Supreme Court’s decision to take the case is a significant win for
supporters of clean solar power because the court takes up just 3 percent
of all appeals filed with it.

The decision comes months after the challengers filed a January 29
petition asking the high court to review a state appeals court ruling that
upheld the CPUC’s decision. EWG said at the time that the appellate judges
gave far too much deference to the commission on approving the change.

“The decision by the Supreme Court to consider the case is crucial to
aligning the standards for reviewing CPUC decisions with those of other
public agencies,” said EWG General Counsel Caroline Leary. “Without it,
unjust deference to powerful interests like the state’s monopoly electric
companies undermines legislative intent and obstructs fair decision-
making.”

In December 2022, the CPUC slashed the financial credits provided to new
solar users for excess solar energy generated from their panels and sent
to the grid. Utilities pushed for the change to weaken demand for solar,
their biggest competition in California. The changes to this net metering
program, or NEM, went into effect on April 15, 2023, and the challengers
then filed a lawsuit against the decision.

That court case resulted in the ruling upholding the CPUC’s decision. But
the Supreme Court’s decision to hear the appeals court’s ruling is a
chance to undo the damage and save solar.

“The court’s intervention is necessary to clarify whether the commission
can disregard societal benefits in setting tariffs for residential rooftop
generation and fulfill its obligation to promote rooftop solar growth in
disadvantaged communities under the NEM statute,” said Leary.

“The Supreme Court’s decision is a ray of hope for rooftop solar at a time
when plummeting installations and massive layoffs are wrecking this vital
industry and jeopardizing California’s climate goals,” said Roger Lin, a
senior attorney at CBD.

“The Public Utilities Commission made a huge mistake that’s putting
rooftop solar’s benefits out of reach for working-class families. But the
commission isn’t immune from legal review, and I’m now a lot more
optimistic that we can get back to a reasonable policy that helps
California fight the climate emergency and environmental injustice,” he
added.

The outcome of the case before the state’s highest court promises to
reverberate far beyond California’s borders. It will set a precedent for
similar clashes between clean energy advocates and monopoly utilities
across the nation.

“We commend the California Supreme Court for its decision to review the
lawsuit,” said EWG President and Bay Area resident Ken Cook.

“Before the state completely relinquishes its longstanding leadership in
building the most ambitious clean energy program in the nation, it is
imperative the high court consider all the evidence showing the social
benefits residential solar provides to every resident of the state,” he
said.

The CPUC’s disastrous decision at the behest of the state’s big three
investor-owned power companies to quash California’s wildly successful
solar program has decimated the state’s once-booming solar industry. It
has caused more than 17,000 jobs losses and numerous bankruptcies for many
installer companies throughout the state.
--
We live in a time where intelligent people are being silenced so that
stupid people won't be offended.

Durham Report: The FBI has an integrity problem. It has none.

No collusion - Special Counsel Robert Swan Mueller III, March 2019.
Officially made Nancy Pelosi a two-time impeachment loser.

Thank you for cleaning up the disaster of the 2008-2017 Obama / Biden
fiasco, President Trump.

Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
The World According To Garp. Obama sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood
queer liberal democrat donors.

President Trump boosted the economy, reduced illegal invasions, appointed
dozens of judges and three SCOTUS justices.
David Lesher
2024-04-22 20:23:34 UTC
Permalink
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/04/22/california-solar-duck-curve-rooftop/>

Rooftop solar panels are flooding California's grid. That's a problem.
As electricity prices go negative, the Golden State is struggling to offload a glut of solar power
--
A host is a host from coast to ***@panix.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Little@man.Ball
2024-04-22 21:44:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 20:23:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by David Lesher
As electricity prices go negative, the Golden State is struggling to
offload a glut of solar power
They cant get ANYTHING right!
Scout
2024-04-23 11:04:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Lesher
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/04/22/california-solar-duck-curve-rooftop/>
Rooftop solar panels are flooding California's grid. That's a problem.
As electricity prices go negative, the Golden State is struggling to
offload a glut of solar power
--
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
That's the problem with solar.. when you need it (peak demand) it's not
there. When you do.. it produces very little to none. morning/evening.
Martin Τrautmann
2024-04-23 05:55:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2024/04/fight-save-rooftop-solar-
california-heads-state-supreme-court
That's too much legal talk for me. What's all of that about?
Scout
2024-04-23 11:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Τrautmann
Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2024/04/fight-save-rooftop-solar-
california-heads-state-supreme-court
That's too much legal talk for me. What's all of that about?
Net metering is killing the electric companies. They lose the higher
residential rates, but their expenses remain largely unchanged because a
power plant isn't something you turn on and off like a light bulb.
Martin Τrautmann
2024-04-23 11:45:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scout
Post by Martin Τrautmann
Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2024/04/fight-save-rooftop-solar-
california-heads-state-supreme-court
That's too much legal talk for me. What's all of that about?
Net metering is killing the electric companies.
why and how?

We have a new trend of "balcony power plants" within Germany. There is
little regulation that you may connect some pv modules with a simple
plug to your power system, although the regulation is still work in
progress, e.g.

* you have to report the system to your energy provider. They may have
have to change the power meter since the old ones may run
backwards.

* you will not get any money for the PV energy that you give away.
You might geht about 4 cents/kWh that you provide, while you
have to pay about 40 cents/kWh that you get.

most parts of the enery prices nowadays are not the cost of
making energy, but the money you have to pay in order to
transport the energy to you, and taxes etc.

* electrical enery is limited to 600 W max (plans to increase
that to 800 W), claimed because of the electrical wiring in
your building (which typically uses fuses with 16 A, 230 V
and 1.5 mm^2 copper cables)

* micro inverters require proper net protection in order to use
the German plug CEE 7/7, Type F, while a special secure plug
is available, but not obligatory (Wieland-Stecker)

* PV energy may be much higher than 600/800 W (e.g. four
instead of the typical two panels) in order to build
east-west systems which provide more energy over a longer
period of time. This might be crippled to max. 2000 W
for future systems

* price starts at about 400 € (inverter, cables, panels start
at about 300 €), which you might convert 1:1 to USD-prices

You can't turn off those small systems, while there may be plenty of
regulation for larger power plants - which may be turned off, but will
get the same amount of money as if they were turned on.

The major problem is that you can't use excess energy. This might be
used e.g. for hydrogen electrolysis, but that's just a theory by now and
lacks that kind of infrastructure yet.
Post by Scout
They lose the higher
residential rates, but their expenses remain largely unchanged because a
power plant isn't something you turn on and off like a light bulb.
So the problem is that your provider won't be able to sell you expensive
energy when you can make it cheaper on your own? Bummer...

And that's what all that legal stuff is about?
Siri Cruise
2024-04-23 11:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scout
Post by Martin Τrautmann
Post by Leroy N. Soetoro
https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2024/04/fight-save-rooftop-solar-
california-heads-state-supreme-court
That's too much legal talk for me. What's all of that about?
Net metering is killing the electric companies. They lose the
higher residential rates, but their expenses remain largely
unchanged because a power plant isn't something you turn on and
off like a light bulb.
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.

https://www.abc10.com/article/weather/weather-extras/water-storage-california/103-303bdd8b-8af8-4101-b0d6-36efd011e8d2
--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed
Martin Τrautmann
2024-04-23 12:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
https://www.abc10.com/article/weather/weather-extras/water-storage-california/103-303bdd8b-8af8-4101-b0d6-36efd011e8d2
I can't read that article. But if it's about storage by potential energy
of pumping water to higher levels, that's a well known and established
technology for peak demands.

Those date back centuries for water mills. For modern transmission those
date back e.g. to 1863 in Switzerland.

However, it's almost impossible by now to build those in our local,
densly populated areas, including the hazzle by building those and the
influence on the landscape and enviroment.

The last one I know around here was planned from 2008 on, while the project was
given up 2017
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpspeicherkraftwerk_Atdorf

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Pumpspeicherkraftwerken#USA
lists some more, e.g. the Bath County Pumped Storage Station with more
than 3 GW the biggest one world wide, until 2022 the Chinese had a
an even bigger one
Siri Cruise
2024-04-23 21:47:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Τrautmann
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
https://www.abc10.com/article/weather/weather-extras/water-storage-california/103-303bdd8b-8af8-4101-b0d6-36efd011e8d2
I can't read that article. But if it's about storage by potential energy
of pumping water to higher levels, that's a well known and established
technology for peak demands.
Those date back centuries for water mills. For modern transmission those
date back e.g. to 1863 in Switzerland.
California has a few reservoirs like San Luis and Chico I think.
It's an old and workable technology.
Post by Martin Τrautmann
However, it's almost impossible by now to build those in our local,
densly populated areas, including the hazzle by building those and the
influence on the landscape and enviroment.
California has hydropower reservoirs outside of cities. I don't
know whether any have room for forebays at the dam foot. New
hydropower dams will be built with these.
Post by Martin Τrautmann
The last one I know around here was planned from 2008 on, while the project was
given up 2017
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpspeicherkraftwerk_Atdorf
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Pumpspeicherkraftwerken#USA
lists some more, e.g. the Bath County Pumped Storage Station with more
than 3 GW the biggest one world wide, until 2022 the Chinese had a
an even bigger one
California is currently researching and constructing energy
storage such as batteries and well known pumped reservoirs. The
chikken littles see electricity production exceeding energy need
and storage as the utter collapse of solar power. Reality is
California is dealing with electricity generation, energy storage,
and all the rest of this to get all electricity in the state green
and non-nuclear. And that will stop poisonning our people and
especially our children.
--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed
Martin Τrautmann
2024-04-24 06:21:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Siri Cruise
California has hydropower reservoirs outside of cities.
Do you know any significant hydropower reservoirs within cities?
Post by Siri Cruise
I don't
know whether any have room for forebays at the dam foot. New
hydropower dams will be built with these.
At least you will need enough water for those. While this has been an
"endless" resource before, many dams for hydropower generation now lack
water to fill them up.

Here in Europe we even lack cooling water from major rivers for the
usage in nuclear power plants. Climate change increases summer
temperature levels, causing both reduced water levels as well as an
increase of temperature. In order to protect water life no excesss heat
from the nuclear power plant may be added to the river temperatures.
Thuse those nuclear power plants have to be shut down in summer, e.g. in
France.
Post by Siri Cruise
California is currently researching and constructing energy
storage such as batteries and well known pumped reservoirs.
Some people think about using the batteries of electrical cars as buffer
for that. But that's not suitable for significant amounts.

A battery may be suitable for private applications. They cost about
1000 € per kWh in Europe. Assuming 2000 kWh/year per person you will
need about 5 kWh/day and person. Life span might be 15 to 20 years here.

And that's for personal usage only. The industry will need much more. I
don't think that batteries will be usable there.
Siri Cruise
2024-04-24 07:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Τrautmann
Post by Siri Cruise
California has hydropower reservoirs outside of cities.
Do you know any significant hydropower reservoirs within cities?
Dams in cities or city adjacent are for flood control and ground
recharge like Stevens Creek, Vasona, Anderson. Hydropower is in
mountains with vertical displacement,
--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed
Little@man.Ball
2024-04-24 19:36:51 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 14:47:37 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
California is dealing with electricity generation, energy storage,
and all the rest of this to get all electricity in the state green
and non-nuclear.
By chasing rooftop solar off - great job ninnies!
Little@man.Ball
2024-04-23 21:24:14 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.

Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
Scout
2024-04-24 14:01:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
Little@man.Ball
2024-04-24 19:38:49 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 10:01:42 -0400
Post by Scout
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
+1
pothead
2024-04-25 01:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scout
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
It's another left wing, democrat boondoggle.
Solyndra part 2.
--
pothead
Joe Biden is the absolute WORST President Of the U.S. ever.
Nobody else is even close. Including Jimmy Carter.
Vote for ANYBODY but Joe Biden in 2024.
Mitchell Holman
2024-04-25 02:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by pothead
Post by Scout
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
It's another left wing, democrat boondoggle.
Solyndra part 2.
Trump wall.





Trump Diverts $3.8 Billion In
Pentagon Funding To Border Wall
February 13, 2020
https://tinyurl.com/ueu7j37


vs...........



Gusty winds blew over a portion of
President Trump's border wall
Jan 30 2020
https://tinyurl.com/3zw9e94a


Floods blow gates off Trump’s border wall
23 August 2021
https://tinyurl.com/dw7e9yh7


People are climbing over Trump's border
wall with $5 ladders
Apr 22 2020
https://tinyurl.com/3ujn9bym
Little@man.Ball
2024-04-25 19:52:40 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 02:02:22 +0000
Post by Mitchell Holman
Trump wall.
Xiden killed it, cornholer.
Siri Cruise
2024-04-25 02:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by pothead
Post by Scout
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
It's another left wing, democrat boondoggle.
Solyndra part 2.
Just put new airports in Reno and Phoenix.
--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed
Little@man.Ball
2024-04-25 19:53:11 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 19:37:16 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by pothead
Post by Scout
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
It's another left wing, democrat boondoggle.
Solyndra part 2.
Just put new airports in Reno and Phoenix.
Just spend and spend and spend - but ONLY in Ukraine, right meth whore?
Little@man.Ball
2024-04-25 19:52:07 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:55:30 -0000 (UTC)
Post by pothead
Post by Scout
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
It's another left wing, democrat boondoggle.
Solyndra part 2.
And let's not forget the Fisker "Karma" aptly named and to be built
in...wait for it...Delaware, at an old GM plant.

They went tits up as took A123 batteries with 'em.

Xidenism/Obamunism always fails.

https://www.nbcnews.com/businessmain/government-loses-139m-loan-electric-car-maker-2d11644165

https://publicintegrity.org/environment/energy-department-bet-on-fisker-automotive-ends-in-bankruptcy/

While Fisker filed for bankruptcy last week, another company, Hybrid
Technology, purchased its assets, including paying $25 million of its
DOE loan. In its bankruptcy filing, Fisker estimated assets between
$100 million and $500 million — and liabilities between $500 million
and $1 billion.
Dave Wainwright
2024-05-14 19:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scout
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
I know. Park the train on what's finished and end the project as a
national monument to another Democrat failure.
Scout
2024-05-15 14:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Wainwright
Post by Scout
Post by ***@man.Ball
On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:58:51 -0700
Post by Siri Cruise
Electricity generating reservoirs with room for forebays already
store some excess energy and this can be expanded if we have a
regular supply of excess electricity.
Nope, not gonna happen.
Newsom's high speed rail hoax needs another feeding.
At $200 Million per mile.. what do you expect?
I know. Park the train on what's finished and end the project as a
national monument to another Democrat failure.
Sorry, but that would cost another $2 Billion to actually get the train on
the tracks.

Loading...